bliumchik | Theology? On MY blog? It's...

Stan says:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7287071.stm

maggiebloome says:
bah, catholics

maggiebloome says:
okay, paradox:

maggiebloome says:
how can anyone believe in heaven and hell at the same time? observe:

maggiebloome says:
1. Presume the existence of hell

maggiebloome says:
2. Presume the existence of heaven, and that virtuous souls go there.

maggiebloome says:
3. Most people would define a virtuous soul as someone who can't stand other people's suffering.

maggiebloome says:
4. So, how can heaven be "paradise" if everyone there knows that billions of their fellow human beings are suffering horribly for all eternity? What kind of saint would consider that heaven?

maggiebloome says:
Therefore: If hell exists, then anyone for whom heaven is, in fact, heavenly, does not deserve to be there.
Stan says:
hmm
Stan says:
unless catholics believe that someone who has lived a sinful life is deserved of their suffering
Stan says:
OR
Stan says:
that once you hit heaven your concern for other human beings is no longer needed

maggiebloome says:
But considering some of the fairly minor reasons for catholics to go to hell...

maggiebloome says:
human compassion has never been bounded by "deserving" rhetoric

maggiebloome says:
hell is supposed to be infinite suffering

maggiebloome says:
and you can go there for lying to your mother and then getting hit by a car before you can find a priest to confess to

maggiebloome says:
so that's unlikely

maggiebloome says:
which leaves your second proposition

maggiebloome says:
...that your compassion is surgically removed in the afterlife? what the hell?
Stan says:
well is it really that strange compared to the rest of it?
Stan says:
ive never really understood heaven
Stan says:
are there other people?
Stan says:
do they have free will?

maggiebloome says:
I don't think anyone really thought that through
Stan says:
if they do, what if they get pissed off and ruin your heaver "experience"

maggiebloome says:
they were just like "heaven is really good yall AND DON'T BE BAD OR ALL THIS DESCRIPTIVE LANGUAGE WILL HAPPEN TO YOU. But if you're good, heaven! It's uh... good."

maggiebloome says:
I'm not sure if it's even described at any point in the bible

maggiebloome says:
hmm, actually think I'll look that up

(LJ-ify your IMs before pasting!)

I did. The Sceptic's Annotated Bible is handy like that. Turns out they pretty much don't ever tell you what's actually in the Kingdom of Heaven, either assuming everyone already knew or deliberately leaving it blank so people could fill in whatever they like best. One reference obliquely suggests they thought of it as a second Garden of Eden, but that's it. (The apostles all sound like really canny politicians, by the way, when you translate the Ye Olde Speake. They were probably wasted on a bunch of farmers, seed metaphors and all.) So basically, my paradox is dependent on people believing that heaven is a place where you go and everything is perfect, and the bible doesn't say that. The bible doesn't say heaven is anything except The Sky for several whole books, and by the time it does it's mostly concerned with telling you how to get there and just assuming you want to. I have to assume the whole thing was made up by popes.

Has anyone read Job: A Comedy Of Justice by Heinlein? That's basically got my point: the dude gets to heaven and his One True Love isn't there, so it isn't really heaven for him. Great book, also. This has been your Midnight Philosophy Radio for this evening. Conclusion: Christians are odd.